[Etchel]

There is an uneasy feeling that lingers among the playerbase. Whispers of the server dying, mass rage quits, and a lot of issues with WoE / the economy. I care a lot about the server, so I'm putting back into Project Rage what I should have been this entire time it has been online.

This thread will serve as the main suggestion and discussion thread for shaping the server into what we want it to be. Here are some issues I have seen, and some possible solutions.

WoE Competition:

- I think this has a lot to do (I mean a LOT to do) with the players we happen to recruit. When a guild happens to join the server that is relentless over War of Emperium, competition goes up and it's fun. Right now, isn't as much of that as there could be. I think if we fix up the rest of the server, this problem will iron itself out.


Everyone has a lot of zeny, and there isn't much to buy:

- Zeny sinks are not very apparent. People get zeny while leveling and farming, and it builds up with nothing to buy. I think we should increase the cost of resetting (maybe 500% more?), and somehow get more appealing items into the market. More consumables that people want to buy. Consumables go away after they are used, and people keep buying them.


Project Rage doesn't look like a low rate, which is what it was intended as:

- Increasing the reset cost will get us closer to that. Also, getting a more populated, fun WoE will help with this image as well. We also might want to re-evaluate our donation page. Some items flood the server causing imbalances (like elunium).


There are a lot more, but this is just to get us started on, the Revitalization.

[Trigger]

I disagree with increasing the cost of the resetter. I'm one of those guys who's old school and doesn't use an RO calc to figure damage. I like to change my build pretty often for fun. Like having a standard wiz one day and a tanking one the next. Retarded things like that are a lot of fun to me. I know I'm not the only one who does this. Got a few friends who do as well. Resetter already requires an item dropped from MVPs. I'd say that's enough to prevent "abuse" of said NPC. If you're going to raise the cost remove the requirement for the Mythril.

Vakarian

[Ceph]

Etchel, on 12 November 2009 - 09:37 PM, said:

WoE Competition:

- I think this has a lot to do (I mean a LOT to do) with the players we happen to recruit. When a guild happens to join the server that is relentless over War of Emperium, competition goes up and it's fun. Right now, isn't as much of that as there could be. I think if we fix up the rest of the server, this problem will iron itself out.

I'm thinking of inviting one of my older guilds here. Particularly,

Ceph said:

Actually, No, it doesn't. A guild could show up Tomorrow and get high trans levels and full gear by next WoE. Ready to rape.

Believe me, I've had this happen to me before. <<'' But in all high chances speaking, I suppose..

This guild I mentioned here. Would say names but that might excite some people from my guild. ]:

If they agree, that might add a bit of competition to WoE later on. They're also pretty competitive about PvP, which would make the server a bit more appealing to current members and ones to come if there's always someone there. =P

Etchel, on 12 November 2009 - 09:37 PM, said:

Everyone has a lot of zeny, and there isn't much to buy:

- Zeny sinks are not very apparent. People get zeny while leveling and farming, and it builds up with nothing to buy. I think we should increase the cost of resetting (maybe 500% more?), and somehow get more appealing items into the market. More consumables that people want to buy. Consumables go away after they are used, and people keep buying them.

Curious about the second part, what kind of consumables? I mean- Are you referring to ingame gained consumables, or the donations like gum?


@Vakarian - Mythril isn't only dropped by MvPs.

[Trigger]

Ah, well I was told that's the only thing that drops it and since @whodrops only shows the top 5 mobs that drop it to my knowledge MVP's are the only thing that drop said item.

Also, I'd like to see it so that players only have to do the cursed abbey quest once if not at all. If you could come up with a script so that all accounts tied to the same email only have to do it once that would be great. Then a player who multi clients or is like me and has an account for each character would only have to do the dungeon access quest once to get in. The server would see that my registered email is tied to all the accounts I use and would recall that one account has already done the quest so the other accounts automatically have them unlocked.

Edit: Also,we I'd like to see the "New World" Chapter added.

[Ceph]

Trigger, on 12 November 2009 - 10:38 PM, said:

Ah, well I was told that's the only thing that drops it and since @whodrops only shows the top 5 mobs that drop it to my knowledge MVP's are the only thing that drop said item.

Also, I'd like to see it so that players only have to do the cursed abbey quest once if not at all. If you could come up with a script so that all accounts tied to the same email only have to do it once that would be great. Then a player who multi clients or is like me and has an account for each character would only have to do the dungeon access quest once to get in. The server would see that my registered email is tied to all the accounts I use and would recall that one account has already done the quest so the other accounts automatically have them unlocked.

Edit: Also,we I'd like to see the "New World" Chapter added.

Mythril Drop List. (Link thanks to Alex. Got it from another thread.)

I too, would like the New world Chapter added. =O

Edit: Just to clarify, the Mythril is only shown dropped by MvP's because @whodrops only shows the mobs with the highest drop rate. Never tested this myself, but it seems quite accurate.

[Trigger]

Yeah I found it shortly after I posted. thanks though. It's retarded though that I should waste my time farming something just to reset the stats/skills on my characters. Fine I get it you want a zeny sink grats raise the prices. Leave the mythril off though. I already have to grind my arse to get gear and cards. I don't want to do it just because I misclicked or miscalculated something.

[Zeitgeist]

I have never been to a low rate with a resetter with this high a cost...and I've been to many a low rate. Really, why not be able to switch builds on the fly? Does it imbalance the game? Should I create three seperate Sinx for all of the potential builds I need? "You shouldn't be dependent upon resets," I was once told, but...why the hell not? I'm not saying we should remove the cost, as it does serve a small purpose. I just think the current price is a little much. Well, quite a bit much.

As for the idea of a "zeny sink," how is that justified? I've found it hard to make any zeny at all, and even if I did, there wouldn't be much on the market I'd want to buy. Does it not make sense to make it easier for people to change builds to hunt what they need to get geared for WoE or to hunt what they wish to put on the market?

As for the revitalization of WoE, the continuance of single-castle War will doom WoE. History repeats itself. If you've kept tabs on past WoEs, a single guild rises up, takes hold of the castle, sets up a decent precast and keeps it. Again and again. Hell, if they get geared enough from the castle, they'll rarely even lose it and they'll only continue to grow more powerful from the drops. At this point, said guild gets uppity about the lack of competition, even though the lack of competition is a direct result of this one guild dominating. Then they get bored...and leave. And take their friends and competition with them. Do we want to see this cycle repeat itself? Single-castle WoE leaves little to no hope for the smaller guilds. I'm not saying we should pass out castles like candy, I just don't believe the current system works for any server.

What to do, then?
How about a 3 Castle WoE?
Still using the Prontera WoE map, we could use all 5 of the castle warps. 3 for one WoE, 3 for the other. Wait, no, I didn't do that math wrong! The center castle could be shared between WoEs. This shared castle could also hold the best drops (like the Orleans' and Tidal/Wools currently handed out in the guild chests) to guarantee action in that castle.
Why not spice it up even more, though? How about make the three separate castles each correspond to a castle in a different town, so as to open up guild dungeons and add a little spark of variety to the mix?

Most importantly, though...we need GMs that truly care about helping the server blossom.

[TaiLzx]

Better WoE means more white pot and mastela usage. Make trans resetting more expensive than regular class resetting. Make teir levels for resetting, say when u are transed, 1-70 free, 70-80 1mil 81-90 5mil 91-96 10mil, 97-99 15mil/ double mithril cost. Just an example.

[Trigger]

WoE idea is great. There is a lot of truth to that and anyone who disagrees is ignorant and blind.

As far as the staff, I rarely see a GM if ever. It'd be nice to see some new staff members. Let me rephrase that. It'd be nice to see more staff members. Granted though if the administration feels the current team isn't doing their job well enough then address the issue in a manner they seems fit.

I'm just tired of the fact that when I @request through the various times of the day for days at a time I'll get no response. More GM's are required. Just an observation.

[Etchel]

I forgot to add: We are hiring new GM's sometime in December. PLEASE DON'T MESSAGE ME ABOUT IT. Just wait until I open up a thread for it.

The WoE idea Zeitgeist suggests is a strong one. People like one castle WoE's for the competition, but it's too ridiculous for most of the population to compete over one castle. I liked the rotation you set up, with 3 each woe and the middle one during both.

I think WoE castle drops might be a bit much. I will probably keep them where they are, but lower the drop rate a bit.

The resetter is just an option. Zeny has little value, the way I see it anyways. If a wizard is leveling and he needs a zerom card, he is way better off farming for it than getting some zeny and working the vendor map. I was getting at the fact that most items are farmed and not bought, and good guilds get the gear they need themselves, giving the vendors little to stay positive about. Not a super friendly market, unless you get a really rare card or item.

About consumables: I mean that it's something players would be able to buy, and need to continually buy to stay competitive. Condensed white pots, for example. If they had an edge, there would be a strong market for them and people could rely on making a decent profit by farming the materials to make them.

[Durain]

CHANGE!

[Nanashi]

I'll stay out of the WoE part, since I don't know enough to give good advice on it (although Zei sounds like he does).

The Resetter, I agree with various parts of various arguments. I DO think the cost should increase because it WOULD help as a zeny sink, but I also agree that having the Mithril requirement in there isn't helping. Then people either have to go hunt one (earning more money in the process, usually,) or they buy one from another player. That doesn't get rid of zeny, it just moves it around. I like Tai's general idea, but you'd need to figure out the levels and amounts.

I really, REALLY like the idea of consumables. I'd reccommend SP items, but I hear that that's a bad thing for WoE, which is why THAT'S not in yet (athough it would certainly drop the zeny on the server). I don't think putting in more donation consumables would really help much. Would selling condensed pots hurt the Alchemists, though? Because right now, they're the only way to get those, aren't they? And random curiosity: What about making metals available, like Elu, Ori and Steel? Would there be a reason not to use those as "consumables"? It would definately cause better items to get out onto the server, and I'm pretty sure people would buy those. (I usually farm them, but it's annoying. Do-able, but annoying.)

About the GMs: I hear a lot of "They're never on; they never respond; I never see them". Um...I do. All the time. Do I just have ridiculously good timing, or do people just keep missing them? Still, I think that hiring more GMs is a good idea, Etchel, and I look forward to December! I do have questions on that, but I'll wait to see if they're covered when you open that thread. ^^

[Zvezda]

For consumable, how about some party assumptio scrolls. Make it expensive, but not to where it isn't worth it. Even with a HP and bard party assump scrolls can be nice for a quick rebuff. Maybe some more party consumables since they promote parties and tend to be pretty useful(I love gaint fly wings).

I am still worried about multiple castles, from what I see it is nothing but a lot of breaks because no one can put up a defense. I don't think it is all that fun to just break an emp over and over.

[Sepharial]

Concerning the cost of the Reset NPC: I think the price is fine as it is. Quite honestly, it's not that hard to farm 500k in the span of an hour or so depending on your class and Mithrils aren't agonizingly hard to come by (It's not like you're killing Incarnations of Morroc for them). Even so, people rarely sell them for more than 1M - 1.5M. As for increasing the cost, I'm not seeing the logic behind it besides an amped-up zeny sink. Can anyone shed some light on that?

About WoE: I have to agree with the problems regarding a single-castle WoE. Reasons have already been stated, so I won't bother repeating them.

One thing that I've advocated for but have seen a lot of backlash against is the increasing of party size. Yes, there is a thread about this already, but it's become rather convoluted and I'd like to bring it up again in a fresh thread. While I understand that apparently the party reduction was to prevent mass Thor leeches, what people need to understand is that they're going to happen regardless of the party size. The only way you would be able to get rid of Thor leeches is to completely obliterate parties, a move that I'm sure no one would consider making. It seems that some people on the server are so opposed to and are disgusted by the idea of leechers, but you can't stop it from happening without seriously screwing up other aspects of the game for everyone.

I don't understand why there is so much backlash against increasing the party size. In the thread there were arguments that there was no need, but "need" is relative to a person's/guild's goals so in my opinion, this is a pretty baseless argument. For those who feel this way, I'd like some elaboration on the matter. Of course, you can always overcome an MVP somehow with a limited party, but what about those who aren't as skilled/geared as other players? Reduced party size puts new members/players at a disadvantage and for those who ARE experienced, it's a problem when people have to miss out on MVP/Dungeon/EXP parties just because there was no room. Making two parties is impractical when resources are limited (There aren't always 2-4 High Priests and 2-4 Professors in guilds that are online) and cuts back on the fun of doing Dungeons/MVPs with your friends. I'm not asking for a 20 person party, just an increase to at least 15 people in a party. This would allow for so much more flexibility and inclusion when playing long dungeons like Thanatos Tower or Endless Tower. Can we seriously expect ET to be completed in a reasonable amount of time with only 12 people, especially when some of those MVPs require specific classes or have mass wipe-out skills?

TLDR Version: I'm suggesting larger party sizes (up to 15-17 members) on the basis that it's more fun and that it allows you to include more people for a more enjoyable experience.

[Dorkdav]

There is a lot of consumables that haven't been used yet. Like Token of Sigfried, Convex Mirrors, Kafra tickets, Bloody Branches, and other things. Those Giant Flywings are great, though at time I wonder if people even notice the NPC that sells them.

Another idea for a zeny sink would be custom warps that cost zeny but get you to places that are a pain to walk to. Like Sphinx 4 or allow to by pass a quest, ie Nameless Island.

I don't think increasing the zeny cost of the resetter will create a zeny sink. If anything people will reset less when it's more expensive.

[Nanashi]

I like the idea of warps to dungeon spots, but I don't think it should by-pass quests. Warps to popular non-dungeon maps might work, though. I just had Hill Winds and Seals randomly pop into my head. I know that there are priests with warps to these places, but they're not exactly easy to find. Not for an insane amount, but even a small(ish?) amount repeated enough makes a lot.

I don't know half of the consumables you mentioned there. Perhaps that says something...^^;;

[Zeitgeist]

Custom zeny-requiring warps like the ones currently locked in the Kafra and Cool Event Corp. NPC? Yeah, that would be a nice addition to the Warper. :3

Increasing party size is most certainly beneficial, but before implementing something such as that, one must take into account the potential buffs larger party sizes would give to Star Gladiators and circumvent this problem.

Somehow implementing the consumables that Dorkdav mentioned is a very interesting thought, as well.

[Etchel]

Nanashi, on 12 November 2009 - 11:33 PM, said:

I'll stay out of the WoE part, since I don't know enough to give good advice on it (although Zei sounds like he does).
I really, REALLY like the idea of consumables. I'd reccommend SP items, but I hear that that's a bad thing for WoE, which is why THAT'S not in yet (athough it would certainly drop the zeny on the server). I don't think putting in more donation consumables would really help much. Would selling condensed pots hurt the Alchemists, though? Because right now, they're the only way to get those, aren't they? And random curiosity: What about making metals available, like Elu, Ori and Steel? Would there be a reason not to use those as "consumables"? It would definately cause better items to get out onto the server, and I'm pretty sure people would buy those. (I usually farm them, but it's annoying. Do-able, but annoying.)

When I talked about condensed pots, I didnt mean selling them from a vendor, but encouraging alchies to make them and sell them. Make them worthwhile. Most people just use Mastellas / White pots.

Nanashi, on 12 November 2009 - 11:33 PM, said:

[color="#000080"]
About the GMs: I hear a lot of "They're never on; they never respond; I never see them". Um...I do. All the time. Do I just have ridiculously good timing, or do people just keep missing them? Still, I think that hiring more GMs is a good idea, Etchel, and I look forward to December! I do have questions on that, but I'll wait to see if they're covered when you open that thread. ^^

I hate to say it, but yes you do just have good timing. We aren't as active as we need to be.

Zvezda, on 12 November 2009 - 11:42 PM, said:

For consumable, how about some party assumptio scrolls. Make it expensive, but not to where it isn't worth it. Even with a HP and bard party assump scrolls can be nice for a quick rebuff. Maybe some more party consumables since they promote parties and tend to be pretty useful(I love gaint fly wings).

I am still worried about multiple castles, from what I see it is nothing but a lot of breaks because no one can put up a defense. I don't think it is all that fun to just break an emp over and over.

Interesting idea. I thought, just now, of those AoE priest buff scrolls, but only being available to priests / champs (for bless and agi). Sort of like expanding their ability to buff an entire party, at the cost of some zeny. Could expand on it.

Sepharial, on 12 November 2009 - 11:43 PM, said:

Concerning the cost of the Reset NPC: I think the price is fine as it is. Quite honestly, it's not that hard to farm 500k in the span of an hour or so depending on your class and Mithrils aren't agonizingly hard to come by (It's not like you're killing Incarnations of Morroc for them). Even so, people rarely sell them for more than 1M - 1.5M. As for increasing the cost, I'm not seeing the logic behind it besides an amped-up zeny sink. Can anyone shed some light on that?

TLDR Version: I'm suggesting larger party sizes (up to 15-17 members) on the basis that it's more fun and that it allows you to include more people for a more enjoyable experience.

It seems as though most of the active population is split on the idea of increasing the cost of the resetter. We won't hastily jump to any conclusions just yet. Also, increased party sizes is definitely a plus.

Dorkdav, on 13 November 2009 - 12:09 AM, said:

There is a lot of consumables that haven't been used yet. Like Token of Sigfried, Convex Mirrors, Kafra tickets, Bloody Branches, and other things. Those Giant Flywings are great, though at time I wonder if people even notice the NPC that sells them.

This goes along with the priest items to expand their ability to AoE buff for a short zeny cost.

Dorkdav, on 13 November 2009 - 12:09 AM, said:

Another idea for a zeny sink would be custom warps that cost zeny but get you to places that are a pain to walk to. Like Sphinx 4 or allow to by pass a quest, ie Nameless Island.

I'm not even sure if dungeon quests is something players want to do anymore. It adds to the lowrate feel, and I like having them required. We'll see where it goes.






I'll add up all the major points and give them a rating based on popularity sometime tomorrow. Sleepy. I'm glad this thread is getting a lot of views so soon. Spread the word on the server

[Nanashi]

Hm...well, taking that route with the pots would be good for the Alchs....the only thing is, it would be GOOD for the Alchs. That would just be moving the money around the server instead of getting rid of it...~_~

Sleep well, we'll get our rusty brains going.

[bear]

One good money sink for consumeables would be dungeon teleport scrolls.